Friday, February 20, 2009
What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
No one is above the law. However, Internal Revenue Service (USA) loses hundreds of billions of dollars annually because people take advantage of the loopholes of the law (NPR Feb. 2009). If we set the bar high, obeying the law will be natural. Mangers do the right thing; leaders do things right. Recent events in Washington have revealed that many politician don’t pay their taxes or at best, pay what they feel like and when they feel like, and get away with it, because they did not break the law. Isn’t something radically wrong here? Leona Helmsley, the flamboyant billionaire, New York City hotel operator and real estate investor could not have been more right when she said, “We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes ..." But my question is not necessarily about taxes. So, what is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal? ********************************************************************************************************* If you are a leader that thinks outside the box, you may want to join the emerging great Leaders and Thinkers at http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1319847 Leaders & Thinkers is a rendezvous of thousands of the finest leaders and thinkers on earth. Free world class leadership resources: www.LeadersandThinkers.org or www.LeadersandThinkers.info
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Doing what is right, or what is legal is a loaded question. If what you THINK is right although illegal, then your choice is based on how much you believe in the importance of being right. Can your ego let the thought of being right fall to the side at the cost of being legal?
ReplyDeleteThere is the letter of the law and there is the intent of the law. It is easy to obey the letter of the law; it is considerably more difficult to commit yourself and your organization to the intent of the law. If auto makers obeyed the intent of the law, we would have highly efficient vehicles today. However the law prescribes a minimum efficiency. Why do more than the minimum?
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ReplyDeleteRuth E. Thaler-Carter
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I do my best to do what's right, and hope it's legal as well.
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posted 9 days ago | Reply to Ruth E. Thaler-Carter | Flag answer as...
Omar Ha-Redeye is a 2nd degree contact
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If you are a Deontologist, doing what is legal is always doing what is right.
Links:
* http://www.achsnatl.org/ethics/bio_ethics_model.pdf
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Dave "The WireMan" Maskin WireNames.com is a 2nd degree contact
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Stick with what's legally right...
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Anand T is a 2nd degree contact
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In my opinion 'doing what is right' is always important.
Being legally correct does not guarantee that you will be right. Sometimes, law also may not be totally right, but what is right is always right.
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There are times when doing what is objectively right will be unlawful and expose the actor to liability. Equally, there will be times when the legal outcomes are clearly unethical. The assumption that law and ethics are co-extensive is not justified. The intentions and motives people have can covert the lawful into the unethical and vice versa. And, worse, many laws are not ethical by objective criteria even though they may be considered ethical by the group that controls the law-making process.
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Les DeGroff is a 2nd degree contact
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Answer C: None of the above.
If there is a divinity, tracking human behaviors, you will be judged and it is likely that no religion or philosophy has a clue as to what such judge as right. Certainly they are not going to judge you by human laws.
If not, then some immorality and illegality is probably a natural aspect of humanity.
:-) is there a group for submerging lesser followers out there?
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Sundarraj Mahadevan is a 2nd degree contact
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This is really a trick question, is it not? ;a bit like "have you stopped beating your wife?" Damned if you say yes, damned if you say no !!!
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Alina Tabara
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In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing !
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Ioana Adriana Stefan is a 2nd degree contact
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It depends on what you understand by what is right and who it is right for. Right is also legal, when you try to do it best for someone else. But if one tries to do it right for oneself it doesn't always turn out to be legal always.
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No brainer in my view. Always work within the legal and regulatory framework for business.
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Vibhav Jindal is a 2nd degree contact
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Every society defines what it feels or accepts as right and that right is converted into law. Hence, if you are following the law of the land, your actions are the reflection of what is considered right in that society. However, at an individual level, it is possible that one may not agree with the accepted 'right' and challenges. However, the problem starts when instead of challenging the accepted 'right' , individuals start finding ways and means of finding loopholes in the law (which by the way is a manifestation of socially accepted 'right') and misuse it for their personal gains.
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PratyushAgarwal LION 2400 + [pratyush_13@hotmail.com] is your connection (1st degree)
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We must always do right amd then make it legal.
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Always doing what is right must come first. To bad that this core value is lost to our fellow Americans.
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Regardless of it being right, the compass MUST be legality and this is why: there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Never leave an opening for your judgment to be questioned or manipulated. The legal slope is a slippery one that can land you in places you don’t want to be in, once that bigger fish has got something one you - well, your bed is made. If their compass is a legal one, then you will simply lose your job; but if their compass is not a legal one, let the slipping and sliding begin and you have effectively surrendered your ability to make right or legal decisions. Not a good place to be.
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ishan gaur
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Practically speaking everything is right if its legal.But, If one opts to be a moralist then even a legal act or transaction may appear to be wrong.It just depends on which side you are.
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Phil Parkinson (linkedin@philparkinson.ca) is a 2nd degree contact
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C.,
I think you have to do what you can live with. If you believe in doing right instead of legal, that is fine. In most cases doing the legal thing is also the right thing but occassionally, these items do not correlate.
I try to do the right thing as much as I possibly can but this seems to be getting tougher with the cover your ass and sue the pants off one another mentality society and the business world have taken on.
Regards
Phil
http://www.philparkinson.com/
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Individuals have different versions of what is right. What may appear to be the correct course of action to one person may be the wrong choice to another. Sometimes the laws are created for situations that are not the same as the ones we face so doing what appears to be legal may not make good sense. At the end of the day we must live with the consequences of our choices and even when we think we know what the consequences will be we can be in for a surprise. I believe maturity is the ability to live with the consequences of our thoughts, words and deeds and to use those consequences to make wiser choices in the future.
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Hi Benjamin,
Without deliberately flaunting the law, I think it is more important to be right than legal.
As far as taxes are concerned, I don't blame anyone, not even Leona, for not paying taxes that they have a legal right not to pay. The government has not earned the moral right, through any sort of competence or suasion, to ask anyone pay more than they are legally obligated to.
There are other instances in which I know I am breaking the law in a minor way but do so because it simply makes sense. So be it. I'd rather do that than bring unnecessary hurt to innocent parties.
There are other times where lawbreaking is so common that it's a joke...look at how many people drive over 65mph on the highways.
All that said: our system of justice is one of the greatest inventions in the world, and I have a ton of respect for it. Every time I pull jury duty, and think about what it means to have the right to trial by a jury of peers, I am ever more so impressed.
Josh.
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Qian Brone is a 2nd degree contact
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I will do what is right within the legal range. I can not be right if it is out of legal range because I will not be protected by the law whatever I do outside the legal range. It is very difficult to be right and illegal. However, it can be right and in no man's land.
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Ton de Graaf ChBC™ is your connection (1st degree)
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Good question. It implies that there is a difference, as you so clearly explain. Sad isn't it?
I think it all has to do with responsibility. We pay taxes for a reason. Taxes are used to create, develop and nurture the world around us so that all will benefit from it. It takes people with a higher state of consciousness to understand that. People who take that responsibility seriously understand that we are what we do. I'm not saying that it is immoral to search for the boundaries of what is legally right, far from it. But it would be good to stop and think about it every once in a while and get back to the basics of the system, our system based on our moralities.
This question is indeed a question of all times. Even the philosopher Socrates talked about it in the principal discussion of the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in Plato's Dialogues. What is the Good? And what is good for man? What is the "state or condition of the soul which renders the life of every man happy": a life of pure pleasure or a life of mind and wisdom?
We are still in an era where greed is our true God. The financial crises has proven us that. I hope that it defines the start of a new era. An era focused not on 'having' but on 'being' .
I hope I'm right.
PS Leaders should do the right thing, managers should do things right.
Links:
* http://www.thedutchcoachapproach.com
* http://theosociety.org/pasadena/sunrise/55-05-6/ev-wtst.htm
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Amit Dharia is a 2nd degree contact
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Law is a state business which not only gives power to state over its subjects, but also earns revenue for the state. As far as enforcing the law generates more revenue than allowing breaking of the law, state would pursue law breakers but otherwise will pay a blind eye. The state cannot hand everyone a ticket who drove over the speed limit.
In the movie "The Reader" a law professor tells his students - purpose of a lawyer is to enforce the law, and not to decide what is right or wrong. It is breaking the law we punish and not doing a wrongful act. The defendant was a Nazi guard in a concentration camp whose job was to select a few prisoners each day. What she did was what state asked her to do. Therefore, she did what was legal in that state at that time. However, from the morality view point - she did wrong.
State could not prosecute mafias and under world lords for lack of legal evidence. If we begin to punish what is wrong vs. what is illegal, we have to take away all advertising on TV! Each of them have some or other misleading fact in them.
As far as the tax law is concerned, it is purposely written in codes with loopholes for those who understand to take advantage. Strict adherence to taxation can result in a dictatorship. As far as everyone pays most of their dues, state does not have means or resources to punish every little misdeed or misinterpretation of law.
People in higher authority should know what is wrong and what is right because they set the tone and standard for the rest.
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Hi Benjamin,
I think that those who frame the legalities always keep the right things in perspective if they are completely aware of the same.
So I guess doing what is legal is doing what is right.
Many Thanks
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Richard Clarke is your connection (1st degree)
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We all benefit from the spend in tax $/£/€: generally we have safe environments, streets and transport, regulations in place so things work well. It would be impossible to earn as we do without the infrastructure in place.
So yes we should pay our taxes, your point raises the question about loopholes. This is more difficult, I would advocate that we have a duty to pay the taxes we owe. What if, as often is the case, this isn't clear?
My experience of Italy is that everyone I speak to generally agrees that the corporate taxes are too high (40% of profits simply put), even the government seems to accept this point, subsequently there seems to be (to a non Italian) a collaboration by everyone involved to pay what is fair in taxes. A very different system, left to individuals judgments.
I personally think it is instrumental to take a look behind the law to the intent of the law. What was the law in this case intended to achieve. Typically then this would exclude from my own world view (or my own approach) deliberately finding loop holes with the intent to exploit them. However, I recognise that this isn't everyone's approach and they need to sit with what is right for them. Last week I personally gave back a small amount I was overpaid in change in a cafe. The guy in the cafe was amazed (A at me giving it back and B at the fact that he could have got it wrong in the first place). However, this is personal to me and how I want to live my life. I find it very hard to judge people who operate within the law, who have a slightly different moral perspective. Let's save our condemnation for those who deliberately operate in flagrant disregard for the laws assuming they don't apply to them.
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Hello Benjamin,
I consider this a delicate question.
Ideally, "Doing what is right" or "what is legal" should be the same.
When they are not the same anymore, the action you may take depends very much on the context. Either way, you may pay a price which probably hurts you and your team. My gentle advise: take the path that hurts less !
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Stephen Fofanoff is a 2nd degree contact
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Doing what is right will always yield a greater abundance and joy in your own life. Doing only what is legal (without regard for what is right) can ultimately catch up to you in unanticipated ways. Look at large companies that do what is right versus those that do just what is legal, you'll find that those companies who do what is right experience greater success and a healthier bottom line.
Take Southwest Airlines, which seems to consistently try to do the right thing (employee relations, customer relations, etc.) instead of the legal thing. From a historical perspective, they seem to be rewarded with a consistent level of success in an otherwise turbulent industry.
Links:
* http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/business/25air.html
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I think Phil and Josh have articulated my views almost exactly: do the best you can to do the right thing, but be very careful to consider what is legal or you may end up in a world of trouble. No good deed goes unpunished - sad and cynical, but from personal experience, I know this to be true. It doesn't stop me from doing the right thing, but I have learned to be very aware of consequences.
Having said that, I also believe that America a shining example of human potential and freedom, and while there are many instances of negative behaviors, I am still exceptionally proud of our admittedly flawed systems. There is no perfection in nature. It is gloriously diverse and flawed and constantly changing and adapting. Which is how I see America. Naive perhaps, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Cheers,
Pattie
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You have to do what's right. But it's up to you to make the judgment call of how far you're able to take this. Ideally, what's right would also be legal. That's not always the case. That's why it's a judgment call.
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Step Jones is your connection (1st degree)
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Doing what is right. Thank you.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 8 days ago | Reply to Step Jones | Flag answer as...
Christie Husted PhD is your connection (1st degree)
Christie Husted PhD
Corporate Criminologist, Management Consultant, Public Speaker
see all my answers
I have read the question and many of the answers that have been posted. I agree, culture determines what is right in society. Society's moral consensus is the basis for law. However, what is right in one society could be forbidden in the next.
We should all agree there are acts deemed: unethical, but legal; illegal, but ethical; and illegal and unethical. I think the latter should be the focus for answering this question. In my dissertation titled Systematic Differentiation Between Dark and Light Leaders: Is a Corporate Criminal Profile Possible?, I explored this issue.
If we allow individuals and corporations to do what they believe is right, then we must delve into whether their intentions are altruistic or egoistic. There is a debate among psychological egoists claiming persons may engage in altruistic behavior, but their motivations are self driven. I offer this example to support the psychological egoists claim: When an individual gives to charity or volunteers their time, they may not be anticipating a material reward for their action. Their action is intended to benefit others. However, the motivation behind the action of charity or volunteering provides the individual with psychological fulfillment or “good feeling”. Thus, the action is altruistic, but the motivation is driven by self-interest.
We would be remiss in not having considered this debate. If it is assumed psychological egoists are correct and the act is the differentiating factor in determining egoism from altruism, then the we must look at the action and how it relates to the individual’s motivation. When the action is taken into consideration it is found Dark Leaders do not possess the ability to relate well to others, lack empathy, fail to conform, and have reckless disregard for others. These characteristics suggest Dark Leaders act in ways which are inconsistent in engaging in acts that benefit others. Findings indicate Dark Leader’s actions do not take into consideration the impact their behavior has on others. The Dark Leader’s inability to relate well to others suggests the Dark Leader is unable to understand or determine the needs, interests and motivations of others. Without this understanding or ability to relate to others, it would stand to reason the Dark Leaders are unable to intentionally engage in acts for the betterment of others. Therefore, their actions are egoistic and not altruistic.
For what my opinion is worth...To prevent Dark Leadership and egoistic behavior, we should let our laws be the guide to our decision making processes
Christie Husted PhD.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 8 days ago | Reply to Christie Husted PhD | Flag answer as...
Nancy Branton, M.A., PCC is your connection (1st degree)
Nancy Branton, M.A., PCC
Executive and Career Coach, Director of Leadership Coach Academy and Assessment Academy
see all my answers
I believe it's important to do both what's right and legal. This is especially true for people in a leadership role to set a positive example. There are many leaders who do set such an example. Unfortunately, the percentage of leaders who do not do so seems to have risen exponentially during the last 15+ years. Perhaps the common denominator is people that believe they are above the law and have a sense of entitlement. This trend is disturbing. However, I've been seeing more and more leaders who are outraged and have been vocal about it. They can play an important role in positively impacting emerging leaders.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 7 days ago
David Slater is a 2nd degree contact
David Slater
European Sales, Marketing and Business Startup Professional
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Given that many people in positions of power are the root cause of mistrust, corruption and illegal behaviour, one can't blame those that can, to avoid doing what is right and just. In Italy, where I practice, the general opinion is that if taxes can be avoided, they should be. The argument being that only the "little people" pay taxes. Illegality is seen to start at the top and therefore trickles down through the whole system. My opinion is that doing what is right & preferably legal, has to be the only way to live. Bearing in mind that if everyone does what they want, the result is anarchy. And the world doesn't need that at the moment. However, there should be a movement by all of us, to ensure that government and senior executives understand that any behaviour that appears not to be just or right, then they will not get away with it. This is the key to the question.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 7 days ago | Reply to David Slater | Flag answer as...
Keith Bray [LION] toplinked.com is your connection (1st degree)
Keith Bray [LION] toplinked.com
Coach/Owner at Coached To Success/Hope & Serenity
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The simple answer to me is working within the system to make changes. What is right and what is legal should be the same thing. With taxes, taking away many of what you refer to as loopholes away, and having EVERYONE pay the same flat rate on 100% of income earned would simplify life and administration and tax those who have a lot equitably with those who don't.
Think of the admin time in government it would save as well as the accounting hours saved!
Regards
Keith
Certified Life Coach
www.hopeserenity.ca
Free hour and client results guaranteed!
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 7 days ago | Reply to Keith Bray [LION] toplinked.com | Flag answer as...
Adrian S. Petrescu is a 2nd degree contact
Adrian S. Petrescu
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Benjamin,
Nice question. It is after all very much context dependent.
Not always the law is moral or ethical (see Jim Crow laws). And not always what's moral and ethical is the law (yet--hopefully).
I'd say thus the answer is a matter of best matching what is being done with universally accepted/acceptable norms of behavior... which more often than not beat the law in strength... the need for a law shows societal weakness to make a rule of behavior applied any other way, and is usually no guarantee as you rightly point out that the laws will be obeyed (it's dependent on ability to break them and get away with it after all, as you point out).
Connected somewhat, on _Accountability_ you may find this interesting, albeit by far not complete but a work in progress:
http://www.linkedin.com/osview/canvas?_ch_page_id=1&_ch_panel_id=3&_ch_app_id=9261320&_applicationId=1200&_ownerId=7465499&osUrlHash=Zzv9&appParams=%7B%22view%22%3A%22canvas%22%2C%22page%22%3A%22show_slideshow%22%2C%22slideshow_id%22%3A%22947732%22%2C%22from%22%3A%22share_slideshow_url%22%7D
Enjoy. Thank you for a nice question. All the best,
Adrian
Links:
* http://www.linkedin.com/osview/canvas?_ch_page_id=1&_ch_panel_id=3&_ch_app_...
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 7 days ago | Reply to Adrian S. Petrescu | Flag answer as...
Robert Orange is your connection (1st degree)
Robert Orange
Owner, Innovest Quantitative
see all my answers
Do what is right. Doing what is legal, assuming we're now referencing the IRS issue, will only be labeled a Loophole by those who haven't read the law or rule. Remember, it is typical for a tax incentive to be labeled a loophole once it has induced someone with the resources to accomplish the necessary task. Politicians use the phrase incentive to induce, then publically abuse those who help by targeting their actions as self serving and wrongly labeled them as tax evaders using the unrealized loopholes in the law, when they are in fact legal tax avoiders.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 7 days ago | Reply to Robert Orange | Flag answer as...
Guy Eastwood is a 2nd degree contact
Guy Eastwood
Developer at AREVA T&D
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If it's morally/ethically right not to do the legal thing and you rate your chances of being caught small, or the penalty is an inconvenience (as opposed to jail and showers with Mr. Big) then do the right thing.
After all in 5 years time the law will probably change - what is right won't.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 6 days ago | Reply to Guy Eastwood | Flag answer as...
CourtReporter Net
Court Reporting Agency at Court Reporter Net
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its important to do whats legally right.
Links:
* http://www.courtreporternet.com
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 6 days ago | Reply to CourtReporter Net | Flag answer as...
Hisham Burdini BPR ,PM , ITIL is your connection (1st degree)
Hisham Burdini BPR ,PM , ITIL
IT Management & Business Process Re-engineering Practitioner
see all my answers
Well,
If this make a sense I think doing the legal things lead to do the right things. We as Humans put the legal forms to protect our rights, so I do believe doing the legal things will take you to the right direction.
For example, if the Sign was RED you by default understand that its not allowed for you to move your car in this direction, simply your mind control the whole process and give the right decision to do the right things because its was decided that its LEGAL ACTION which force you to STOP your car.
Regards
Hisham
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 6 days ago | Reply to Hisham Burdini BPR ,PM , ITIL | Flag answer as...
Judy Kannady is your connection (1st degree)
Judy Kannady
Project Management (PM) / Mainframe Applications Developer
see all my answers
Do what is legal AND right, whenever possible.
If it is right, but not legal, you must follow your conscience, but be willing to accept the consequences.
More likely, what is legal will not be right. For example, a company can do business in a way that has never been tested in the courts, and no laws prevent the action, and yet the action causes harm to employees, customers, or the general public. In this case, there is FREEDOM to act, but not the RIGHT to act. Do what is right.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 5 days ago | Reply to Judy Kannady | Flag answer as...
June R. Massoud is your connection (1st degree)
June R. Massoud
Computer Engineer at Genesis Consulting Inc., Canada
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I'd say both: what's legal and what's right.
As for Leona Helmsley, she was crooked but gave the bulk of her fortune to charity after she died. So I guess there's no such thing as black and white in this world, but maybe things lie more in the gray zone.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 4 days ago | Reply to June R. Massoud | Flag answer as...
Brian Neale, MBA, CIMA is a 2nd degree contact
Brian Neale, MBA, CIMA
Manager of Investments (Corporate Endowment, Pension (DB), & Offshore Captive Insurance)
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Simple answer: You determine which of the two (what is right vs. what is legal) is the most conservative of the two choices. Then you act accodingly, following the most conservative choice. Try as gov't "leaders" might, you simply cannot legislate ethics and morality. Within a given profession, "policing your own" is probably more effective than anything else.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 1 day ago | Reply to Brian Neale, MBA, CIMA | Flag answer as...
Tennyson E. Stead is a 2nd degree contact
Tennyson E. Stead
8 Sided Films/Unified Pictures
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If doing what was legal was inherently more important, there would never be any revolutions.
Looking at the details behind your question, it seems like what you're really asking is "Is something automatically right, just because it's legal?" If you can pay children a dollar an hour to work overtime in Malaysia, does that make it right? Is Leona Helmsley's tax evasion ethical?
Of course not. Tax breaks exist so people can spend their income on business, and put it back into the economy by creating jobs, goods, and services. Using those rules to hide income that is being spent on personal expenses, instead of sharing it with the community in the form of taxes, is absolutely unethical.
To some extent, people have to be trusted to regulate themselves. In the end, the nation we live in is a reflection of how well we do it. You can't regulate everything.
Tax law can never be perfect. How well it works is as much a reflection of the ethics of the people who use it, as it is a reflection of the people who wrote it.
If you are using those rules to make your business easier, then that's how it's supposed to work. If you're bending those rules to make yourself richer at the expense of your community, you might not be technically breaking the law... but you are part of the economic problem our nation is facing right now.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 1 day ago | Reply to Tennyson E. Stead | Flag answer as...
Jim Ricca is your connection (1st degree)
Jim Ricca
President of HR & Safety Consultants
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Leona Helmsley was neither righ or legal in this instance an she spent some years as a guset of the State of New York in the Iron Bar Hotel for her efforts.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 1 day ago | Reply to Jim Ricca | Flag answer as...
Aaron McLin is a 2nd degree contact
Aaron McLin
Experienced technology Project Manager with extensive people skills.
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To the degree that we tend to use an appeal to one to shield us from the negative consequences of the other, neither doing what is right or doing what is legal is as important as doing only what we are willing to be accountable for.
If I am willing to violate the law to remain within my understanding of what is right, then I must be willing to accept the consequences of that choice. By the same token, if I am willing to violate my understanding of what is right to remain within the law, I must be willing to accept those consequences as well. And in both of those cases, the onus rests on me to understand what those consequences are.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 1 day ago | Reply to Aaron McLin | Flag answer as...
aurora bramble is a 2nd degree contact
aurora bramble
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right is more important
because the evolution of the law follows in the wake of ethical evolution
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 23 hours ago | Reply to aurora bramble | Flag answer as...
Zulkifly Jamaludin is your connection (1st degree)
Zulkifly Jamaludin
Owner at Z-J'S
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Depends on the situation - we ought to see the situations for the next best actions.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 23 hours ago | Reply to Zulkifly Jamaludin | Flag answer as...
Howard R. Berger, CLU, LUTCF is your connection (1st degree)
Howard R. Berger, CLU, LUTCF
Financial Services Representative at Chicago North Financial Group, an office of Metlife
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Hi Benjamin,
It is often said, "That which is merely legal does not always pass the test of being ethical. To be truly just, one must clear both hurdles."
All the best,
Howard
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 21 hours ago | Reply to Howard R. Berger, CLU, LUTCF | Flag answer as...
Andy Cawston is a member of one of your groups
Andy Cawston
CEO and Chairman, International Alliance of Guardian Angels NZ Charitable Trust
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It is always legal to do what is Right. It isn't always Right to do what is legal. What is legal has "wiggle-room" built-in, where Right and Wrong can get fuzzy. What is Right doesn't. Right and Wrong are always absolutes, and there is no such thing as "grey area". Grey-area or "wiggle room" is purely a legal construction.
Therefore it follows if you always strive to do what is absolutely Right, as sure as night follows day it will also be legal.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 20 hours ago | Reply to Andy Cawston | Flag answer as...
Carry Metkowski is a 2nd degree contact
Carry Metkowski
Director of Program Development at The Producers LLC
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NIce question, one part reason, two parts gotcha!
A general rule of thumb (reason) would say that doing what is legal is right. So how do you then address this situation? In the Netherlands, the statutory rape laws state that I can have a concentual "intimate-relationship"
with a twelve year old. Really, wow! The question is then is it right? This crosses the legal line and enters the moral zone.
What is the goal of asking this question? To determine that all laws are not right or that all rights should not be by laws , this is why the church exists?
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 20 hours ago | Reply to Carry Metkowski | Flag answer as...
Sue Glatter Kamman
Divorce and Parentage attorney in Cook, McHenry, Lake and DuPage Counties. www.kammanlaw.com
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An honest man is one who does the right thing, even when he knows no one will know if he doesn't.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 20 hours ago | Reply to Sue Glatter Kamman | Flag answer as...
Melissa Q is a 2nd degree contact
Melissa Q
Writer
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Doing what is right, I believe so. Doing what is rights boils down to the basic--the root of all true, lawful and of course, legal. If you know what is right, you very well know what is legal. But any legality never comes before righteousness and that's the point. Religion aside, but that's a fact. First things first. So I say, doing what is right is definitely more important than doing what is legal.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 18 hours ago | Reply to Melissa Q | Flag answer as...
Brian O'Leary is your connection (1st degree)
Brian O'Leary
Program Manager at eThekwini Municipality, Durban, South Africa
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Private Answer:
Dear Benjamim
undoubtably doing what is right is more important. General societal mores guide one so that the well being of society and of individuals is ensured. If legal loopholes are used to enhance the questionable well being of an individual at the expense of the greater good then that is clearly wrong. By the same token the law should be just and equally applicable to all individuals.
Regards
Brian
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 16 hours ago | Reply to Brian O'Leary
Ken Schneider (1,300) is a 2nd degree contact
Ken Schneider (1,300)
Sales and Marketing Executive
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Doing what is right.
Even the great Warren Buffet who says he should pay more gets his pay as capital gains instead of income, saving him millions.
Everyone on wall street was acting legally but not ethically. We need ethical people in these desperate times, not people that want to dance along the razors edge of what's legal.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 5 hours ago | Reply to Ken Schneider (1,300) | Flag answer as...
P Mills is a 2nd degree contact
P Mills
Marketing Coordinator at Catalog Retail Marketing Intl. (CRMI)
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Stick with legal...If you go with what is 'right' you will find that many people see things as 'right' differently....This could cause major problems...
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 4 hours ago | Reply to P Mills | Flag answer as...
Michael Modes is a 2nd degree contact
Michael Modes
Senior Copywriter at MARC USA
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There is no such thing as losing money because of the loophole of the law. If it's a loophole, then it's legal. Blame the morons who write the laws, not the smart people who understand them better.
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RE: What is more important: Doing what is right or what is legal?
posted 4 hours ago
"Doing what is right or what is legal?"
ReplyDeleteInteresting question again Benjamin :-)
The term [right] and [legal] hold something judgemental in them, that comes from the EGO of mankind. A set of behaviour rules that has been brainwashed into some-ones nervous system by a state-controlled (via tax financed) -institute called school (aka youth prison camp!)
So "doing right" and legal" automatically fires of a set of conditioned neural responses so that a single individual never will take action against the government, the institute (how about that for the thought of having free will and choice in the us of a)
My answer..
Drop the sh*tload of pre-programmed ego stuff,
Jugde every situation from your,non-discriminating Heart.
Take action according to your own feelings at that time
Be repaired to live with the consequences..
Background reading on the US school system? (see the link below)
After reading this... think again about the terms Right and Legal and feel what your answer is from the Heart
And Taxes... stop financing the ter**** in the White House!. They do stuff with your tax money that you do not agree upon!
Links:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm
When what is right is also legal, that's the choice.
ReplyDeleteWhen what is right is different from what is legal, I'd say we should change the law, to make it right...
This, however, is more complicated, but that's the way I think we should proceed.
Liviu Caliman
To do right by applying all the knowledge skills is a must to make it legal if this is not done we have to pay for it ..so doing right is and ensuring that legal is the way to lead.
ReplyDeletePratyush
Every society defines what it feels or accepts as right and that right is converted into law. Hence, if you are following the law of the land, your actions are the reflection of what is considered right in that society. However, at an individual level, it is possible that one may not agree with the accepted 'right' and challenges. However, the problem starts when instead of challenging the accepted 'right' , individuals start finding ways and means of finding loopholes in the law (which by the way is a manifestation of socially accepted 'right') and misuse it for their personal gains.
ReplyDeleteIf it's morally/ethically right not to do the legal thing and you rate your chances of being caught small, or the penalty is an inconvenience (as opposed to jail and showers with Mr. Big) then do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteAfter all in 5 years time the law will probably change - what is right won't.
C.,
ReplyDeleteI think you have to do what you can live with. If you believe in doing right instead of legal, that is fine. In most cases doing the legal thing is also the right thing but occassionally, these items do not correlate.
I try to do the right thing as much as I possibly can but this seems to be getting tougher with the cover your ass and sue the pants off one another mentality society and the business world have taken on.
Regards
Phil
http://www.philparkinson.com/
Individuals have different versions of what is right. What may appear to be the correct course of action to one person may be the wrong choice to another. Sometimes the laws are created for situations that are not the same as the ones we face so doing what appears to be legal may not make good sense. At the end of the day we must live with the consequences of our choices and even when we think we know what the consequences will be we can be in for a surprise. I believe maturity is the ability to live with the consequences of our thoughts, words and deeds and to use those consequences to make wiser choices in the future.
ReplyDeleteOn 02/15/09 6:25 PM, Amit Dharia wrote:
ReplyDelete--------------------
Law is a state business which not only gives power to state over its subjects, but also earns revenue for the state. As far as enforcing the law generates more revenue than allowing breaking of the law, state would pursue law breakers but otherwise will pay a blind eye. The state cannot hand everyone a ticket who drove over the speed limit.
In the movie "The Reader" a law professor tells his students - purpose of a lawyer is to enforce the law, and not to decide what is right or wrong. It is breaking the law we punish and not doing a wrongful act. The defendant was a Nazi guard in a concentration camp whose job was to select a few prisoners each day. What she did was what state asked her to do. Therefore, she did what was legal in that state at that time. However, from the morality view point - she did wrong.
State could not prosecute mafias and under world lords for lack of legal evidence. If we begin to punish what is wrong vs. what is illegal, we have to take away all advertising on TV! Each of them have some or other misleading fact in them.
As far as the tax law is concerned, it is purposely written in codes with loopholes for those who understand to take advantage. Strict adherence to taxation can result in a dictatorship. As far as everyone pays most of their dues, state does not have means or resources to punish every little misdeed or misinterpretation of law.
People in higher authority should know what is wrong and what is right because they set the tone and standard for the rest.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteC. Benjamin Anyacho asked me to add my post here.
ReplyDelete"Doing what I think is write can certainly be a slippery slope, but from another standpoint, my business operates in China where the law and oversight by local officails is much more conveluted and sometimes even contredictory. I sometimes find it impossible to meet certain regulations and keep honest at the same time. I even have had goverment tax officials advise me on how to report certain numbers (inncorrectly) to satisfy certain policies that were contradictory. Though there is a slippery slope I find myself contending with, needing Chistian accountablility to keep to these standards, I have to rather set my company morals on other standards besides what the sometimes yet immature Chinese laws say."
Doing what is right will always yield a greater abundance and joy in your own life. Doing only what is legal (without regard for what is right) can ultimately catch up to you in unanticipated ways. Look at large companies that do what is right versus those that do just what is legal, you'll find that those companies who do what is right experience greater success and a healthier bottom line.
ReplyDeleteTake Southwest Airlines, which seems to consistently try to do the right thing (employee relations, customer relations, etc.) instead of the legal thing. From a historical perspective, they seem to be rewarded with a consistent level of success in an otherwise turbulent industry.
Doing right is better, because there is the hope that it will eventually inform what is legal.
ReplyDeleteDoing what is legal merely supports the status quo, good or bad.
Regardless of it being right, the compass MUST be legality and this is why: there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Never leave an opening for your judgment to be questioned or manipulated. The legal slope is a slippery one that can land you in places you don’t want to be in, once that bigger fish has got something on you - well, your bed is made. If their compass is a legal one, then you will simply lose your job; but if their compass is not a legal one, let the slipping and sliding begin and you have effectively surrendered your ability to make right or legal decisions. Not a good place to be.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like a typical ethical dilemma. The right answer is only obvious when the sets are (right and legal) or (wrong and illegal). What happens when the sets are (right and illegal) and (wrong and legal)? I believe there are actions that are both right and illegal. Here I expose the "Killing Hitler" trump card. I can only provide my opinion as an answer to the question. Clearly there are people who are willing to take actions that are (wrong and legal). I have more respect for poeple willing to take (right and illegal) actions. I belive doing what is right is more important.
ReplyDeleteI have a related blog post at: http://gordontaras.blogspot.com/2009/03/ethics-v-honor.html
On 02/24/09 1:09 AM, Paul Bridle wrote:
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Doing something legal should mean doing it right. One can still do the right thing and be legal in most cases. Take Kevin's example, it was wrong to deny women the right to vote. So the right thing to do was to change the law.
The trouble is, too many people hide behind the law and do the wrong thing. People justify wrong behavior by using laws that were not designed to be used in that way. This is where laws become a problem. I encourage companies to ensure that when rules are written, there is also an explanation as to the reason or the spirit of the rule/law. This helps people ensure that the spirit is considered when adhering to the law. Easy to say, difficult to administer though....
Paul
www.paulbridle.com
www.thoughtsonleadership.biz
On 02/24/09 9:00 PM, Robin Cook wrote:
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What is legal is often not what is right, however what is right is rarely illegal.
For theological and philosophical reasons, it is better to do right. But how many government workers study these disciplines?
ReplyDeleteRandy